Need some help with my plumbing!

AquaDan · Jan 19, 2013

I glued my plumbing a few days ago so I decided to do a leak test today. I filled all 3 chambers of my sump with the same level of water but when I turned on the pump, it sucks most of the water out of the return chamber to the point where the water level is just below the bulkhead and its making an air-sucking noise from the sump's bulkhead. The water level in the return chamber never seems to even out with the other two chambers but when I turn the pump off, all three sections even out.

The left overflow is way more powerful than the right overflow. I know thats probably due to not centering the return but It was hard to do and accommodate the UV I plumbed in. I've been trying to post pics and a vid but the site is not letting me.

Good news is that there are no leaks but I can't figure out whats going on with the sump. I've got a 125 gallon with corner overflows and I'm using an Awaki MD55RLT.

Has anyone else experienced this before? Any suggestions? I'll post pics as soon as the site lets me.

ClownAquatics · Jan 19, 2013

You need to add more water.

Your Running water level is different than your water level when the system is off. Run the system and add more water to where you want it to be in the sump. Then turn off the system and make sure that it does not over flow your sump.

JimmyR1rider · Jan 20, 2013

ClownAquatics said:
You need to add more water.

Your Running water level is different than your water level when the system is off. Run the system and add more water to where you want it to be in the sump. Then turn off the system and make sure that it does not over flow your sump.

+1

Remember your plumbing all has to fill with water. Once that happens it drains your sump. As flow aquatics said add more water, it'll get to where the level rises as you add.

AquaDan · Jan 20, 2013

Thanks guys. I'll give it a shot. I'm not liking that my left overflow is much more powerful than the right. I'll probably end up redoing the return and centering it over sump somehow.

ClownAquatics · Jan 20, 2013

The overflows should be the same as long as they are the same height in the tank. But it really does not matter if one is more powerful. It may just seem that depending on the route that the water is taking to get into the sump.

Coral Theory · Jan 20, 2013

AquaDan,

You do need to add more water, but one suggestion we have is that you should not have the system running and then add water. If you did this, there is the possibility of adding to much water so that when you shut the system off it might overflow the sump. This is usually a small possibility, but it can happen if you are not careful.

An alternative would be to shut off the return pump. Add water to the system via the display tank. The excess water from the display tank will drain down to the sump. You can keep adding water to the system until the water line in the sump is about 1-2inches from the top. Turn on the system and the system should run properly. This will also give you an idea as to the max fill line in your sump when the system is running. I suggested 1-2inches due to displacement from putting other things in the system or just being plain safe.

Another possible issue you might have is that your sump return chamber is too small. This is unlikely, but it will take approximately 1.5-2g of water from the sump return chamber to start the overflow process in your 125g display tank. (assuming the water line at the overflow teeth)

Hope this helps.

Coral Theory Team

AquaDan · Jan 20, 2013

Coral Theory said:
AquaDan,

You do need to add more water, but one suggestion we have is that you should not have the system running and then add water. If you did this, there is the possibility of adding to much water so that when you shut the system off it might overflow the sump. This is usually a small possibility, but it can happen if you are not careful.

An alternative would be to shut off the return pump. Add water to the system via the display tank. The excess water from the display tank will drain down to the sump. You can keep adding water to the system until the water line in the sump is about 1-2inches from the top. Turn on the system and the system should run properly. This will also give you an idea as to the max fill line in your sump when the system is running. I suggested 1-2inches due to displacement from putting other things in the system or just being plain safe.

Another possible issue you might have is that your sump return chamber is too small. This is unlikely, but it will take approximately 1.5-2g of water from the sump return chamber to start the overflow process in your 125g display tank. (assuming the water line at the overflow teeth)

Hope this helps.

Coral Theory Team

Thank you very much for the reply! The water level in each sump chamber seems to have evened out and its no longer sucking air from the sump bulkhead, but now the water level in the right overflow box is fluctuating such that It dips below the durso pipe causing a brief gurgling sound before rising back up. It goes away when I add more water to the sump but tends to come back a short time later.

Coral Theory · Jan 20, 2013

Based on the info you provided, two things come to mind. Either the tank is not leveled so that more water is entering the right side of the overflow versus the left side. This we are hoping is not true. Another cause of why one side overflow is more efficient than the other is due to restrictions of flow from your plumbing (can be cause by many factors). We are assuming it is cause by restrictions.

In either case, there are two simple solutions you can try. One, reduce the flow rate from the return pump. The overflow is not able to catch up to the flow rate of the pump, reducing it will help.

Two, move the overflow tube in the sump above water (only applies if it is in the water). If the overflow tube is in the water, it will cause a siphon which drains water fast when the siphon starts but will stop once the siphon exceeds the amount of water return by your pump. Once that happens the siphon breaks and you get the gurgling sound. The overflow tube will continue to drain, but since the return pump exceeds the overflow draining, the siphon will not restart until there is enough pressure buildup from the overflow to push water down the tube, and the cycle occurs over and over again. Hence the gurgling and rising of the water inside the overflow.

Let me know if any of these two suggestions work. If not, you can provided more details and we can try to help you out.

Coral Theory Team

AquaDan · Jan 28, 2013

Today I filled the tank and sump and the plumbing seems to be holding up well but I have loud splashing sounds coming out of both my overflow boxes and the water inside the boxes does not stay level. I know Coral Theory suggested making sure the tank was leveled so I double-checked and ended up placing some shims on the right side of the tank. I included some pics and a youtube link to give you an idea what I'm dealing with. I'm wondering if I need shims on the side of the tank as well?? Behind it? I also had a hard time figuring out how much water to keep in the sump.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsDl5iUcJGU&feature=youtu.be

dubs · Jan 28, 2013

hey bro ill be around tomm if need help hit me up am pretty good at this tank stuff i have plumb a few tank well i can maybe help with some of ur issue

AquaDan · Jan 28, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?feature=vm-privacy&video_id=TsDl5iUcJGU&ns=1

Not sure why the link is not working so here it is again.

edd · Jan 28, 2013

thats a big shim you have their. with that much of a gap i would shim the center also. with your over flows, sounds like water level inside is too low. try opening valve a little on pump to feed tank more.

AquaDan · Jan 29, 2013

dubs said:
hey bro ill be around tomm if need help hit me up am pretty good at this tank stuff i have plumb a few tank well i can maybe help with some of ur issue

Thanks Dubs. I really appreciate the offer but unfortunately, I'll be working all day and my tank is in NJ at the GF's house, lol. I think I'm gonna change my location in my profile.

AquaDan · Jan 29, 2013

edd said:
thats a big shim you have their. with that much of a gap i would shim the center also. with your over flows, sounds like water level inside is too low. try opening valve a little on pump to feed tank more.

Thanks for the reply Edd. As far as i know, the pump is as open as can be. Some more water might be the answer but it was filled up last night all the way up to the overflow box strainer. I drained the tank last night so I can rethink my shim work.

Coral Theory · Jan 29, 2013

AquaDan said:
Today I filled the tank and sump and the plumbing seems to be holding up well but I have loud splashing sounds coming out of both my overflow boxes and the water inside the boxes does not stay level. I know Coral Theory suggested making sure the tank was leveled so I double-checked and ended up placing some shims on the right side of the tank. I included some pics and a youtube link to give you an idea what I'm dealing with. I'm wondering if I need shims on the side of the tank as well?? Behind it? I also had a hard time figuring out how much water to keep in the sump.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsDl5iUcJGU&feature=youtu.be

AquaDan,

That is a pretty big shim. Definitely do another shim in the middle. Have you checked the tank from front to back, usually you wont be so lucky to have only one corner needing shims.

As for the water inside the overflow not being stable, its due to the full siphon and loss of siphon from the overflow piping. Its normal if the flow rate of the return pump exceeds the "regular" speed of the drain. Regular meaning flow rate at which the drain does not need to maintain a siphon to drain properly.

Easiest solution is to dial back the return pump but that would lower the return turnover to the sump.

As to the splashing in the sump, is the overflow pipe above or below the operating water line of the sump. Splashing only usually occurs if its above the waterline. Gurgling usually occurs when the pipe is under the waterline.

If you can provide pics of the plumbing in more detail it would be easier for us to help you. Also, we cant see the youtube video.

AquaDan · Jan 29, 2013

Coral Theory said:
AquaDan,

That is a pretty big shim. Definitely do another shim in the middle. Have you checked the tank from front to back, usually you wont be so lucky to have only one corner needing shims.

As for the water inside the overflow not being stable, its due to the full siphon and loss of siphon from the overflow piping. Its normal if the flow rate of the return pump exceeds the "regular" speed of the drain. Regular meaning flow rate at which the drain does not need to maintain a siphon to drain properly.

Easiest solution is to dial back the return pump but that would lower the return turnover to the sump.

As to the splashing in the sump, is the overflow pipe above or below the operating water line of the sump. Splashing only usually occurs if its above the waterline. Gurgling usually occurs when the pipe is under the waterline.

If you can provide pics of the plumbing in more detail it would be easier for us to help you. Also, we cant see the youtube video.

Coral, thanks again for the reply. I did not consider leveling the tank from front to back and as it turns out, it is misleveled. I'm currently trying to figure out how to correct this issue but considering how close the right side of the tank is to a wall, I'm not sure how I'm going to pull it off. As for the flow rate, do you suggest incorporating a gate valve after the return pump? I've considered it but I think i'm going to wait and see what happens once the tank is properly leveled because I'd rather not lower the turnover rate. The splashing sound in the sump is no longer an issue. I've attached some more pics of my plumbing to hopefully give you a better idea of what I'm working with but I do not believe that the overflow pipe is under the watert line. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsDl5iUcJGU <--- Please click on that link (or cut and paste the URL) for the youtube vid of my tank. I accidentally made the vid private but I just clicked on the link and it seems to work now. Please let me know if that is not the case. Thanks again.

AquaDan · Jan 29, 2013

Forgot to mention... crank up your speakers so you can hear the splashing/waterfall sound coming from both overflows!

Coral Theory · Jan 29, 2013

AquaDan,

I got the overall picture of your setup. Sump looks good. Cant tell the position of the drain pipe inside the sock, but I'll assume its under the water line cause you have water moving up and down on your left overflow. Indication of gurgling effect (or siphon).

This is exactly what I was describing before about the "regular" flow of the drain pipes keeping up with your pump without having to create a temporary siphon. The up and down movement of the water is basically the overflow creating a siphon when it reaches the top, the siphon starts. The siphon of the overflow is greater than the return flow rate of your pump therefore, it starts to drain water. Since your pump can not keep up with the drain at full siphon, it will drain down to where the strainer is and then suck in air and break the siphon. The splashing sounds is coming from the falling water off the teeth of your overflow. If you look, the sound is not as noticable when the water in the overflow is high but will become louder as the siphon drains the water out of your overflow. This should get better as the overflow slimes up a little from algae, but you can try to find a cover for the overflow, should help block out some of the noise. It will help if you return piping is above the water line in your sump. Just dont forget that the operating water line in your sump can be another 1/4-1/2" higher depending on how strong your pump and the how big your sump is.

Check the plumbing on the left drain to make sure that it is flowing downwards. It could be that when you tied up the plumbing under your stand that it is pointing upwards. Would help a little with the flow.

From the video, it does seem the right back corner is slanting in. Should have the problem fix ASAP.

AquaDan · Jan 30, 2013

Coral Theory said:
AquaDan,

I got the overall picture of your setup. Sump looks good. Cant tell the position of the drain pipe inside the sock, but I'll assume its under the water line cause you have water moving up and down on your left overflow. Indication of gurgling effect (or siphon).

This is exactly what I was describing before about the "regular" flow of the drain pipes keeping up with your pump without having to create a temporary siphon. The up and down movement of the water is basically the overflow creating a siphon when it reaches the top, the siphon starts. The siphon of the overflow is greater than the return flow rate of your pump therefore, it starts to drain water. Since your pump can not keep up with the drain at full siphon, it will drain down to where the strainer is and then suck in air and break the siphon. The splashing sounds is coming from the falling water off the teeth of your overflow. If you look, the sound is not as noticable when the water in the overflow is high but will become louder as the siphon drains the water out of your overflow. This should get better as the overflow slimes up a little from algae, but you can try to find a cover for the overflow, should help block out some of the noise. It will help if you return piping is above the water line in your sump. Just dont forget that the operating water line in your sump can be another 1/4-1/2" higher depending on how strong your pump and the how big your sump is.

Check the plumbing on the left drain to make sure that it is flowing downwards. It could be that when you tied up the plumbing under your stand that it is pointing upwards. Would help a little with the flow.

From the video, it does seem the right back corner is slanting in. Should have the problem fix ASAP.

Coral, thanks again for the assistance. I sincerely appreciate it. My drain pipes are well under the water line of the sump. I figured this was a good idea to eliminate any splashing sounds. Are you suggesting that I cut them to sit just above the water line? I will definitely implement your other suggestions. Job one is to figure out how to properly level the tank. Do you have any ideas on where I might find some overflow covers?

fishywoo · Feb 3, 2013

If your overflow level is rising and falling and you are using a durso you need to make the hole in the top gf the durso larger. If you have a drill set find the one that fits the hole you have now then step it op on size at a time until the hole is letting enough air in to stop the rise and fall of the water. This worked successfully for me when i had this prob. This prob will also occur when salt creep fills the hole on top of the durso.

Need some help with my plumbing!

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